Thread:KalinaVita/@comment-35109290-20181001182934

Look. I'll cut straight to the chase. I wouldn't be posting on the wall again if this issue wasn't so frustrating and if you weren't making obvious attempts to shut down any means of actual conversation, even before I provided more sources (you were literally doing this since the start, when Irosefeather first reverted all of the changes, again - even when sources/references, such as the content of the manga/novels themselves, WERE provided, and then when she deleted half of the comments made even though she was the one who asked for the information in the first place. Yes, I have caps of this.) In fact, I'm pretty certain you or her specifically told me initially if there was a concern to contact you on the message wall here, and keep it here, because you didn't want to provide contact outside of here. Because I wouldn't have continued to use the walls if you hadn't, until you began to refuse to use the information provided, specifically on the issue of the Tateyamas.

''You also only told me to use the talk pages recently, and I pointed out I've never seen them used. ''If I were to use the talk pages then, I sincerely hope my comments there wouldn't be deleted without even a response and endless waiting for the information to be applied too. Like, this entire issue could be avoided if I or someone else active (i'd be willing to pass on the info to someone else who could determine what can be used properly) could just update the pages on our own, like how a Wikia should function. If there had been an issue with how the references were citated or something similar, you could have always asked me kindly about them - instead, we are here. By the way, scans for Sidu's artbook re: ages fixes/confirmations still do not exist online, so the constant refusal to accept the source (including the Japanese translators' insistence it contains the ages, even though you list other translators as 'reliable sources' frequently, even when they're not native) would mean I'd have to buy it. As I keep saying. Repeatedly.

"Updates on relationships can be very easily done by just using a "this changes at this point of the story" structure. I don't see any need to involve any complicated adoption/foster or language details when the only thing that matters is how the characters view each other emotionally."

Except, there is a need. And here's why (besides the fact you refuse to remove any notion of "siblings" from their pages, as if they always see each other as "siblings" when it's clear they no longer might.).

In the final novel, Kano makes clear his feelings towards Kido are ROMANTIC. He makes it clear he drops a (mental) "confession" ("kokuhaku" - look up "kokuhaku culture") towards the "girl he liked" - presumably Kido, as he is last thinking of Kido around when he dies. Azami even asks him about how he feels towards Kido not much later on. If someone - even someone not me - were to eventually summarize this for "Summertime Reload", this information would have to be included, including on their profile pages. And if the assumption is that "they're siblings!" completely, this makes for an unfortunate association (as I'm sure you might realize). Plus, it's simply inaccurate and dishonest. They are not adopted, and were never legally adopted [their surnames never legally changed]; only fostered, with feelings that change over time (though that may remain for Ayano - that is fine and can still be noted, I have no issue with that.) I do not expect the ship to be noted as "canon", because it's not (yet) - only that the implications are there, and the feelings from Kano are at least one-sided canon as of the final novel and possibly manga (and due to his tone used in the final novels' scenes and the use of the "karen" kanji as noted below, probably even since the very start at the orphanage).

To prove I am not lying about this (I haven't lied about any of this information, fyi, literally all of it came from reliable translators):

[on language usages, too, which had context lost in the English version. Proving, again, language interpretations are important. Again, this is a native Japanese speaker/person. from Japan.]

https://zushilove.tumblr.com/post/166252725377/

" Sorry, I don’t have the English version of the novel so I don’t know what it’s translated to or how it sounds in English, but I just need to say this. 可憐(Karen) is a word that we usually use to describe something lovable or beautiful with a deep admiration. ( Deeper than Kawaii )

Before Kido went to the orphanage and met Kano. (nov. 7)

Kido: “I’m not 可憐.”

After Kido met Kano at the orphanage. (nov. 5)

Kano: “She is 可憐.” "

https://zushilove.tumblr.com/post/167908452537/

https://zushilove.tumblr.com/post/167766511597/

https://zushilove.tumblr.com/post/167906559097/

https://zushilove.tumblr.com/post/165968960767/ - confirmation (again) of "childhood friends".

[on KanoKido "confession" / "kokuhaku" scene.]

https://zushilove.tumblr.com/post/169955059832/

https://zushilove.tumblr.com/post/169989061912

"Kano: When Azami heard that, she leaked her voice moaning “ugh”. She was the kind of person to empathize with my previous confession. She should be able to assume why I’m being hesitant to answer Kisaragi-chan."

(the specific word he uses is "confession" - again, "kokuhaku".)

[confirming much of the same info] http://fuyuyuu.tumblr.com/post/169047902055/

At the end, for just a single moment, he felt like he could hear the voice of the girl he liked. Her tone gave off a seemingly angry feeling. He unconciously turned around.

There was no one there. That seems like her more than anything else.

http://fuyuyuu.tumblr.com/post/169045087525/

[^Kano's POV continued.]

What I felt when saying so was “Please at least come help us before Kido was dead.””

http://fuyuyuu.tumblr.com/post/169046400815/

Azami asked Kano if he got along well with “Tsubomi”, to which he answered: “Yes, that’s right. We’ve always been together since childhood. She was such an obstinate, clumsy person… I liked her, a lot.”

Hearing so, Azami gave a short “I see” and then started to sniffle and cry and tremble: “I-Isn’t it sad? To bid farewell to someone who accompanied you for such a long time? It’s as painful as having your body on fire. Ugh… Sob… I don’t know what I should say…”

( ... )

Kano said: “Now, it can’t be helped. Kido gave her best for our sake. I’m lonely she’s not around anymore, but thanks to her, we are alive so we can’t just waste it by crying all the time.”

He stood up again right after finishing the sentence, but then thought: “Half of it was the truth, but half was mere lies. Before the lies began to dissolve, I must step forward without any hesitation.”

(I do not actually care much for the ship. I'd prefer it not canon without all this messy context. I do care about the implication continued here that Jin would support incest due to the unfortunate association with the word "siblings" and the phrases on Kido's page implying she views Kano as nothing but a sibling, when it's made clear in the manga their feelings have all been changing, according to Seto.) For example, there continues to be a trivia note on Kido's page that falsely assumes her requesting to drop keigo was because she viewed them as siblings from the start. This is false. She did so because keigo reminded her of her abusive family members, and Kano was even going to use keigo with her before she requested that. That's why the language details continue to be important. Because it's a Japanese series, not a Western one. Assuming they're not important is - quite frankly - a very Western view to take.

The constant refusal to use "foster" instead of "adoption" - even when "foster" is canon - complicates this issue to the point where there IS a need to involve language details. And they're being overlooked.

By the way, I had screencaps of the conversation for my own reference (for the data archival more than anything else), and I first brought up this issue way back in the beginning of July. It's now October. Only a few corrections have been made since, and the major issues continue to be ignored. I wouldn't have continued to try to contact if the information had been accepted from the start instead of heavily debated since my first comment, not on my part.

(This information on Kano's "confession" also comes from Fuyuyuu, by the way, who you list as a reliable translator, along with the Japanese translator Zushilove, who is native to Japan - if native Japanese aren't reliable, I don't know who is. And since they are not lying about this, when the novel translation is finished, that will likely include this too, since all the other information they summarized lines up with the novel's full translation.)

Like, at this point you have been treating me (since the very start, this is) with nothing but rudeness, including attempting to bring up my language skill as if that wouldn't be offensive as heck to someone who didn't speak English?? I was doing my best to act polite before (hence the formal tone) but my patience has a limit?? (By the way, Wikia broke the formatting on many of my messages even when they were properly formatted, which isn't my fault, ok. They were still readable if one took the time, and if not, you could have always asked me to re-post it kindly instead of making assumptions about my language.)

I have not had any issues to this extreme with any other Wikia. I've had pleasant conversations with the mods of Pokemon, Layton and Ib wikias, for example, where such heavy skepticism regarding sources and adding trivia was not assumed so heavily from the start, because at least I tried to provide sources, unlike a lot of other Wikia users. Why is it that the mods of every other Wikias could respond pleasantly, or at least without rudeness, but this Wikia for some reason cannot?

(finally, official scans of Kano's age. Again. Showing the translator is not lying about the ages for reasons to have this much skepticism.)

https://zushilove.tumblr.com/post/168045879377/

"#again it was clearly said that ayano is one grade above of kanokidoseto #and shintaro clearly said he is 18 years old in the present time story"

(and fostered)

https://zushilove.tumblr.com/post/169767919267/

From this line in the 5th novel, it was made clear that the Meka Trio were taken in as foster kids to the Tateyama family. In the original Japanese novel, manga, or any other official content, it was never said that they were “adopted ( 養子 )”.

(I provided a kanji lookup for the exact same kanji, confirming "foster parents", which, again, went ignored.)

Feel free to delete this comment too, but if I actually use the talk pages in the future, I sincerely hope the information (especially on language usage and the like) won't continue to be overlooked. (An apology would be nice too. I do apologize that the issue became this complicated, though to place all the blame on me is quite frankly very unfair.) 